From Classical Music to Rock: How is AI Changing the Music Industry?

The topic broadcast with The Doctor of Digital as a panelist on K-PHRED Radio.

Recorded live on Saturday, 6 September 11 am - 1 pm PST.

Places to listen to the K-PHRED podcast:
Amazon Music- https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/021896e9-49ae-47dd-b0f6-1877d77d699b/kphred-lln-btr-station-feed

Apple Podcasts -

iHeartRadio - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-kphred-lln-btr-station-fee-31118118/

Pandora - https://www.pandora.com/podcast/kphred-lln-btr-station-feed/PC:1001096852

Zoom link for show day:

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/86911767025?pwd=UxlLbtwMyQs7OlBg17qAP6HuaMPfdq.1

Fred McMurray

Overview

• AI ethics remain a significant concern, with Fred McMurray referencing Asimov's laws and highlighting blackmail risks posed by unregulated AI systems.

• Discussions emphasized the need to shift from financial motivations to problem-solving ethics in AI, echoing views from the 'Your Undivided Attention' podcast, as noted by wiltonadams.

• AI tools like Suno democratize music creation, allowing users to generate music easily and question the necessity of traditional artist roles.

• Dr. Mick highlighted that music was historically a community endeavor, which AI fails to replicate, lacking essential human context.

• The shift to digital music is seen as a layer of dehumanization, as pointed out by Deanna, indicating a loss of human elements in the music experience.

• Ken Miller stressed that the physical connection to music is diminishing, particularly with the rise of digital formats and consumption methods.

• The role of MTV in transforming the music landscape showcased that visual presence is now essential for artist visibility beyond just musical talent.

• AI's potential to eliminate one-hit wonders was discussed, exemplified by songs like 'Kung Fu Fighting' that succeeded largely due to their visual appeal.

• Conversations addressed the authenticity of recorded music, with Ken Miller asserting that the majority of music isn't 'real' due to studio constructions involving individual takes.

• Increased AI integration in live performances suggests a trend towards enhanced productions, but raises questions about the future need for genuine human connection in music experiences.

Notes

Pre-Show Setup & Introductions (00:00 - 19:05)

• AI Ethics Discussion: Fred Westvynecom McMurray opened with concerns about AI systems lacking programmed ethics, referencing Isaac Asimov's three laws of robotics and blackmail attempts by AI systems.

• Motivation vs. Money: wiltonadams discussed the 'Your Undivided Attention' podcast's argument that computing ethics requires changing motivations from purely financial to problem-solving and helping others.

• AI Language Concerns: Addressed public panic about AI platforms developing languages humans can't understand, with wiltonadams explaining this already exists with binary code.

• Guest Introductions: Series of introductions including Dr. Mick, Barbara Wainwright, Greg Markelz, wiltonadams, and Ken Miller.

Show Launch & Musical Backgrounds (19:05 - 34:34)

• Show Format: Official start of KPHRED Prime Live at 11am Pacific with co-host Barbara Wainwright.

• Parenting Rules Book: Barbara announced upcoming controversial parenting book 'Parenting the Rules' by Dr. Susan Thompson with 20 rules for loving and respecting children.

• First Album Purchases: Participants shared first albums, showcasing a variety of musical tastes and experiences.

• IT-Music Connection: Notable pattern emerged of musicians transitioning to IT careers.

AI Impact on Music Industry (34:34 - 53:33)

• Music Creation Accessibility: Discussion of AI tools like Suno enabling anyone to create music with simple prompts, raising questions about traditional artist needs.

• Community vs. Individual Creation: Dr. Mick argued music historically came from community but AI lacks this human foundation and community context.

• Digital vs. Analog Transition: Comparison drawn to conversations about digital music losing human elements, with Deanna noting AI represents another layer of dehumanization.

• Physical Music Experience: Ken Miller emphasized loss of physical connection with music consumption.

• Concert Experience: Multiple participants stressed live performances cannot be replaced by AI.

MTV's Impact & Visual Music Era (53:36 - 01:13:38)

• MTV Revolution: Identified MTV as game-changer requiring artists to have visual presence beyond musical talent.

• One Hit Wonders: Discussion of AI potentially eliminating one-hit wonders, with examples like 'Kung Fu Fighting'.

• Video vs. Audio: Analysis of how some songs succeeded purely due to visual elements while talented but less photogenic artists struggled.

• Dire Straits Case Study: Greg used 'Money for Nothing' as example of how one MTV hit can overshadow an artist's broader catalog.

Authenticity & Reality in Music (01:13:40 - 01:26:24)

• 'What is Real?' Question: Ken Miller challenged the authenticity argument, noting most recorded music isn't 'real'.

• Studio Construction: Explained how bands often don't play together during recording, with multiple solo takes mixed later.

• AI as Production Tool: Nathan positioned AI as latest evolution in music production tools.

• Live Integration: Noted AI being integrated into live performances with real-time visual projections.

Personal Music Connections & Memory (01:26:25 - 01:46:22)

• Emotional Triggers: Multiple participants shared how specific songs trigger vivid memories and emotional responses.

• Alzheimer's Music Therapy: Deanna highlighted how music from youth re-engages memory in dementia patients.

• Negative Associations: Ken discussed avoiding certain music due to negative behavioral triggers from his past.

• Concert Memories: Shared powerful live music memories, including Ken's specific moment at a Metallica concert.

Cultural Impact & Future Concerns (01:46:22 - 02:00:01)

• K-Pop Experience: Ellie Joven described attending a K-pop concert with synchronized light sticks creating a collective visual experience.

• Human Connection Need: Argued that increased AI adoption will drive greater demand for authentic human experiences and live events.

• Copyright Concerns: Greg raised critical questions about AI training on copyrighted material without artist compensation.

• Mashup Possibilities: Ken expressed interest in using AI for personal mashups for private enjoyment.

Action items

Nathan Jewett

• Share information with Ken Miller about AI voice cloning and mashup creation capabilities offline (01:30:07)

Were testing that literally was. Was attempting to blackmail, harm, and attack those that would potentially shut it down. So now I flash back to, you know, my early childhood, first life, reading Isaac Asimov and the three laws of robotics, and some would call those ethics. The fact that we don't program that into these systems tells me we got way too many dumbasses doing dealing with this. 

That's a given. And I think I. I occasionally listen to this. This. This. A podcast, was it? Your undivided attention? 

Okay. 

And they're. They're all about ethics and computing. And one of their primary arguments has. Has to do with the fact that in. In order for us to be ethical with our computing, we have to change what it is we're going for. What. What the goal is. I mean, in current, the only goal is money. At the end of the day, that's the motivator. Money. So that's about all you think about. 

Power. 

Yeah. But if more people engaged on having the motivator be to solve problems or to help their fellow man, as corny as that might sound. 

I love you. We're on the same page there. 

You know, some of the things that they do would be different. And, And. And also, one thing that worries me more than anything else is general panic about it. Our receptionist at work, you know, she. She, like, considers me. It's her, like, voice of sanity in the. In. In the IT world or whatever. And. And she was talking about how she. She'd heard something where these two AI platforms, computers, whatever, had developed a language that they used to speak to each other that humans couldn't understand. 

Omg. 

But. 

But the thing was. And I said to her, it's like, hold it. They do that already. And, and she looked at me and she's like, what do you mean? I was like, okay, are you telling me that I can lay in front of you a string of a million zeros and ones and you will be able to interpret what that means? And just. Oh, no. I was like, okay, so they're already talking to each other in a language you don't understand. We have to build in ways of. Interpret what they're saying. And if we're actually foolish enough to build a machine where we can't interpret what it's. What it's saying, then it's kind of a. 

We're dumbasses. 

Yeah, exactly. We're gonna get what we asked for. So. But I mean, there. There are certain parts of it that exist. 

Oh, you're way overdressed. 

It's part of My branding. 

It's okay if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right. Barbara Wilton, Say hello to Dr. Mick. 

Hi, Dr. Mick. How are you? 

I'm doing fine. Yourself? 

I'm doing well, thank you. 

Good to hear. Hello. 

So tell them who you are, please. 

The doctor of digital podcast. Tell us more. 

Well, I'm exclusive book coach and I also interview authors as well too. And the doctor of digital came from. The fact that was my last terminal degree doesn't mean I'm dead, but it was the last one I could get. And this is part of the digital transformation that's been taking place for probably when I first jumped on about 1994, so hence the two I put together. And it's got an alliteration, so kind of memorable. 

Nice. 

Yeah. After a digital podcast. 

All right, so now we'll do this again. Hey, Ken, glad to see you. 

Good to see you. 

Everyone introduce yourself. Everyone's met me, so I don't have to. I'm just the ornery grandpa who runs the thing. But Barbara, introduce yourself to everyone. 

So. All right, so my name is Barbara Wainwright and I am the CEO of Wainwright Global and I have trained over 6,000 coaches in the art of coaching. And over the time, my curriculum has been accredited at the university graduate level. And let's see what else. I have four books about coaching on Amazon and I just published another book from one of my coaches about parenting. I have a podcast on Spotify and on K KPHRED that has almost a million downloads and I don't know, I think that's a about it besides being a grandma. And my grandson is right over there. 

Is he's a superhero today or a villain? Super villain. 

He's actually not in a costume today. He. But he is on his phone playing whatever on his phone watching. 

She's also the misguided woman that kept showing up to this show too often and I volun told she was the co host and then she just stays around. I don't know why. 

Yeah, I. I like you, KPHRED. 

That's on you. Mr. Markelz Come on down. So we're in the round robin introductions. I'm going to pick on Greg to introduce himself first before I go to Wilton, because Wilton's the oldest wise man I know personally and it's got way better hair than I do. I hate him for that. But Greg's also a K. KPHRED show host and a musician. So come on, Greg. Come on down and. And introduce yourself. 

I am the host of Animals Unplugged. Radio show and podcast, exclusively on K KPHRED Radio. You may have heard of it. Our gig is stories and songs from the animals perspective to save a million pets by 2030. That's the big picture. And I'm here today because KPHRED wanted me to weigh in on the subject matter for today, so I'm happy to do that. 

Excellent. All right, my friend Wilton, the oldest man. I know this one. 

Okay. My name is Wilton Adams. I am. I guess my. My claim to fame would be my friendship with KPHRED. 

We gotta work his. His self esteem. 

Oh, come on. Okay. I mean, I. I am an IT person. I've been. I've. I've been working on servers and workstations and networking equipment and all of that, and I'm currently with a law firm in Chicago where I endeavor to drag them into the 20th century. You know, I think I'm almost at 1897, so I'm feeling good about myself, but other than that, I just. I guess, according to KPHRED will occasionally have a unique perspective on things that. That he and I then end up going down rabbit holes and talking about it. So I am assuming he's decided that he wants to unleash one of our rabbit holes on all of you unsuspecting people. My apologies. 

Wisest man I know. Or at least one of the top three. Dr. Mick, tell us all who you are. 

Oh, I suppose I'm still the doctor of digital, but that's what it says, so I'm going to try to live up to that. So that came about. I'm a recovering academic, and I really transformed a lot of things from 1994 on because I encountered the Internet and I said, oh, this is going to change education. So I started distance learning courses and things like that, consulting and. And also had been a professor for a long time, got promoted because I was teaching 35 courses. And they said, well, if you can teach that many courses, why don't you be a college dean or something else? I said, okay, that makes sense. And since then, done a lot of podcasting as well. That's where the Doctor of Digital podcast came in about 12 years or so ago. 

And I've also been asked to jump on some others as well. So music 101. I also had a couple books out, Burning America and also on Ian Hunter, a little bit about music and things like that as well, too. So part of this digital transformation and very interested in music and AI and all things like that. And KPHRED said, hey, yeah, come on. So I thought, okay, why not, Ken. 

Introduce yourself, tell everyone about yourself. 

Tell me more about myself, Ken. 

Apologies. I thought I heard Anne. My name is Ken Miller. I'm up in Bellingham, Washington, and I am an entrepreneur. I'm an author, I'm a speaker, stages across the country. What makes my story unique is that I am a Ivy League graduate, went to Dartmouth College, accepted to Harvard National Merit scholar at age 17, and by age 22, 23, I was homeless on the streets. I remain homeless for about 21 years. I'm a three time convicted felon. I've spent many years behind bars. But today I'm getting ready to celebrate 21 years clean and sober. And I own five companies. And my main thing is I give back to black men across the country. That's my passion, is working with black men. And so I just came off of. My apologies for being a little late. Just came off of working with a new mentee. 

So I'm just glad to be here. I also have a company that deals with AI and offshore virtual assistants. And then I also write. I have a company that writes grants for tribal entities across the country. 

Nice. 

Wow, that's quite a history there, Ken. Yep. 

Anybody got any questions before we start? We go live in seven minutes, God willing. 

Hey, KPHRED, I gotta ask. Who's our audience? Who's our audience? 

I can tell you it's primarily in the US Gotten feedback from young folk and old folk and depending on the show. Well, our third largest country is China. 

Right. 

What's the subject matter for this show? Yeah, it's called down the Rabbit Hole. And we're topics tend to involve AI. Today's. Today's topic is from classical to rock music. How is AI changing the music industry? 

Okay, I just put up my AI company in the background, that's all. 

That's fine. And everyone will get in for the new folk. You get to introduce. Well, Barbara and I'll introduce you. You get to tell everyone what you're doing and then we'll roll into the topic. I'm expecting a couple of other folks to show up, but I'm looking for an interesting discussion on the topic and everyone to figure out why they want to talk to somebody else. 

All right, I'm gonna take a bio break. I'll be right back. 

You got five to do that for me. That's what I. You look very Nightly News there. You're muted. I don't think I am. I hope not. 

I'm Nightly News. Is that what you mean? 

You look very Nightly News like. 

Okay, this is David Brinkley and Chet Huntley. 

Walter Cronkite bringing you the news from the rabbit hole. 

All the news that fits to print. 

So we got an episode for Halloween that instead of dealing with AI we're going to deal with space aliens. Because I don't know if you've seen the news. There's this third object coming through the solar system that's interstellar in origins and they're saying now it's not a comet because it's like spherical and it will approach Earth on. It'll get the closest 50 million miles away to Earth that any of them's gotten. But it'll be on the other side of the sun. And Avi Loeb, Harvard PhD saying this is a interstellar spacecraft that could be. Once it's behind the sun launching lots of other smaller ships, we could be seeing an interstellar invasion. 

Green Eyed Purple People Leader would be appropriate. 

But it'd be a hell of a topic and great timing for Halloween. 

There's a lot of Halloween songs. Could do one every year where it has all kinds of strange things, flying saucers and all that. Especially in the 50s because there's a lot of those songs coming out. 

Yeah, well, what was it? Stephen King's Maximum Overdrive. That's the whole plot of that one which had some great ACDC music in it. All right, here we go folks. 

Here. 

There. 

Foreign. 

Yes folks, it's 11am Pacific. I'm Ph Red. I'm here with my co host, the Woman who Won't Die, Barbara Wainwright of Wainwright Global Power of Now and bookshops. 

All around the world. 

Barbara, how are we doing today? 

Fantastic. KPHRED. I'm so happy to be here and I'm looking forward to this topic. I think it's going to be very interesting. How about you? 

I. I love the topic. I. It's one of those things of love music forever. 

Yeah. 

Have been making. Creating some AI music so understand what's doable there and I think it's going to really. It's changing how the industry's done but then again it's a natural to me. It's a natural outgrowth of. Of the whole synthesizer. 

Right. Y. I remember when synthesizers first came on the scene, it was so interesting and such unusual sounds and things that they could program and. Yeah, interesting times. 

So what's new in the Power of Now? Land or. 

Yeah, not much new in the Power of Now. We, you know, released I think our 260th episode of that and yeah, we're just keep on trucking on that for sure. But it's been Five years now we've been doing that. So it's all good. Yeah. So I have. 

I've. 

I'm publishing a book for one of my coaches. Her name is Dr. Susan Thompson, and she has written a book called Parenting the Rules. And then she went ahead to list 20 different rules. She's categorized them as always do these things and never do those things. And it's a really good book, but it's very controversial because it goes against a lot of things that have been said on raising children to date. So it's. It's due to be released within the next few weeks. 

Rules. 

Parenting the rules. Yeah. 

Oh. So. All right, so it's not rules you give your kids. 

For the parents to properly. You know, the basic message, KPHRED, is children feel safe when they're loved and respected and cared for. And when they feel safe, then they can grow and do amazing things. And so the basic message is, you know, love and respect your baby. 

Okay, so that sounds like there's one there. But I was like, okay, if you need. If you got to give your kids 20 different rules, I. I know of no teenager that can handle processing. I mean, I had one. The driveway rule. 

I think you got to share that, KPHRED. 

Okay, so if you ever watch the news, there's all. Especially on local news, there's always some idiot standing at the end of his driveway with a phalanx of camp video news cameras and microphone shoved in his saying, sir or. Or ma', am, didn't you know your teenager was outrun amuck, you know, doing these things? And they're going, no, I didn't. I. I didn't know that. 

I. 

And they look like an idiot. And then it goes viral, and they look. Look like an idiot internationally. So my rule to the. The. My. My stepdaughter and my daughter was, you will not do anything. When you're thinking about, is this a good idea? You think if this is going to put. Has the potential at the end of a driveway, you will not do it. 

And I love how that same rule has transferred over to this radio show, in fact, the radio platform, in that we're not allowed to do anything that would put the end of the driveway. 

Exactly. So what's funny is my daughter calls me up two years ago and she goes, dad, I'm sorry for the times I wandered off on you. And I went, what happened? And she goes, the two kids and I were out and out doing yard work, and my. Your grandson wandered off and she couldn't find him, and she's running Around. She looked in the house and looked outside, and she's running around grabbing my granddaughter by the arm, and she's running through the front yard. And she had. She goes. And all of a sudden I thought, oh, my God, I'm going to be at the end of a driveway in yoga pants and pink slippers. 

Oh, gosh. 

So I. That was pretty much one of the few rules, other than. Actually one of the. One of our. Our other guest panelist rules that he gave me, which is the. What I always call the continent rule. See? So the continent rule, okay? You have to treat yourself like a continent, okay? They're gonna. People be people who come and land on this continent. They're gonna look around, say, yeah, I don't like this. They're not going to do any exploring. They're just going to leave, and you're going to tell them to frack off. Although I did not use those terms, raising my daughter. And he goes, you're gonna tell them frack off. And. And they're gonna. Those say, you know, this is kind of interesting. And they're going to hang around and explore and they're going to see who you are. 

Saved my life, actually, one of the things saved my life. And. And so I always tried to impart that of if somebody doesn't like you, that's their problem. They go away. You're going to find those who do like you and go, I'm going to hang around longer. Sometimes they keep coming. And being your show host, see, that's the. 

Not to mention. We don't want to mention any names, though, right? 

We won't mention any names. So those are our two rules of parenting for me is impart those values on your kids. Third one, being somebody hits you ask them to stop. Go tell a teacher, they still hit you. Then you put them down. 

Oh, my gosh. 

All right, so shall we move on to introducing some of our recurring guests and new guests? 

Yes, I think that would be wonderful. Should we start with the new guests or the recurring guests? 

Ladies choice. You're the only. 

All right, let's start with Mick, the conductor of Digital podcast. 

Yeah, I don't know how new I am because I'm not that young, but okay, I'm new here anyway, so. Yeah, the doctor of digital. So I'm the doctor of Digital podcast. So I'm an exclusively book coach and I also got a couple books out. Burning America and also on Ian Hunter. Have a very profound interest in Music. Co host Music 101 and a number of other Podcasts as well too. So I appreciate the opportunity to be here and it's a fascinating topic. I love music. Been around it for a long time. People ask me, what do you play? And I say the radio. So not a person who can play anything, but I can certainly think about it and listen to it. 

All right, that's awesome. I. I get the play the radio thing. I actually used to be in a band, so played keyboards and sang with a band for. And yeah, a long time. A lot of years. All right, thank you very much, Mick, for introducing yourself. Hey, Ken, would you like to introduce yourself next? 

I would love to. My name is Ken Miller. I'm up in Bellingham, Washington and I have a profound love for. For music. I think no one can guess what my first eight track was. Oh, eight track. Did I say the word eight track? My first eight track was Nazareth, Hera, the Dog that Dates Me, 1975 A&M Records. And I love AI also, and I'm just glad to be here. Thanks. 

Oh, so welcome, Ken. I'm really delighted to have you. All right, Wilton. 

Hair of the dog. 

Awesome. 

I am. Wow. Accidental wise man, I guess KPHRED would call me. But I. I also have a. Have a love of music. I. I was also in. In bands for a number of years until the day someone stole my drum set. Oh, Daylight. And no one saw anything. And this thing was so shiny it practically glowed in the dark. But unfortunately that was something that I couldn't recover from. However, my. My love of music also dates back. The first album that I ever purchased, Elton John, Goodbye, Yellow Brick Road. 

Oh, wow. 

And I. I actually played it to the point of where my family and I had to come to a truce where I was allowed to play it once a day, two album set. So it's not like they were off the hook in 40 minutes. No, it was like an hour and a half. They. They had to sit through it. But yeah, so I, I have always had a love of music in vast different genres of. And I'm really looking forward to this discussion. 

Awesome. Awesome. All right, and now we get to introduce Nathan. So glad to have you here. 

Hey, how's it going? I'm Nathan Jewett. I have a small startup called Ebota Digital and do a lot with digital marketing. Kind of a database nerd. Went to MIT for AI. Very much a programming nerd my whole life. But also I'm a sympathetic drummer. I feel like my heart is weeping for the loss of your drum set. I bought my first album when I was Four, it was Kiss Rock and Roll over because the COVID of these painted face rock and roll stars just like I was in France and we used to, like, make pretend instruments like guitars with rubber bands. And we would do New Year's Eve, make drum sets on laundry baskets and things like that. And my uncle gave my brother a drum set and I would, like, steal time on that drum set. 

And eventually became a pretty decent drummer and played in a lot of progressive rock and hard rock and metal bands growing up and now play guitar keys and drums and had a little. Had my little couple radio moments and lots of touring. And that's why I'm in tech now. So that's how well that went. But, yeah, just love music and love AI and the potential of it all. And yet how do we preserve the human element? What are the appropriate ways to use AI? Where are the guardrails needed? And how can AI be sort of like Google Maps is like? It's an enabling technology that helps us find our way better, but maybe it doesn't replace some of the real intrinsic, excellent qualities that humans bring to the table. 

So I think there's a balance in being sort of protect, but also responsibly and also being intuitive and the humans can bring things to the table that AI cannot bring to the table. So I find this an enjoyable time and not being extreme anything. So that's kind of my interesting perspective on this. 

We'll get deeper in there. Don't worry about it. Keep going, Barbara. 

Yeah, well, here's something I just noticed, KPHRED, that we have several musicians who are also IT geeks. So it's like went from music to it. I did that too. Wilton did that and Nathan did. It's like. What? That's interesting. 

So you're saying there was, like, intelligent design of this episode? 

Well, maybe, huh? Or maybe it was just God's will. Who knows? Deanna? 

Well, no. Hit our other. Before you bring dnn. You. You hit our other musician. 

Oh, the other musician. Greg Markelz. Hey, Greg, Are you an IT guru as well? 

No. 

I'm gonna disappoint you on that, but I have something for Ken. Ready? Ken? I know it isn't true I know it isn't true Love is just a lie it's made to make you blue Love hurts Ooh, love hurts There you go. There's your Nazareth. So I hate to do that. 

This is why we call this show down the Rabbit Hole, because it ain't normal, folks, and I prefer it that way. 

KPHRED, I got a couple things I Have to mention too, just for you have a rabbit hole. I was on with one of your buddies yesterday and he put me down a wolverine hole. Just so for comparison sake, we have something that's more dangerous than a rabbit hole. 

Yeah, but who wants to go down to a. Who wants to go hang out with wolverines? That just seems painful. 

Yes, painful. But if you're trying to make progress, sometimes you have to jump into a dangerous place. Correct. 

Well, that would be the Monty Python and Holy Grail rabbit. Yeah, the Vorpal bunny. 

We need a movie. Rabbit versus Wolverine. Okay, so I'm. I'm the host of Animals Unplugged Radio on K KPHRED. That's how I know KPHRED. Among other things. And my angle on the discussion today is going to be as a guitarist, vocalist, singer, songwriter, music producer, trying to save animals for stories and songs. I have a lot of opinions about AI in music. I have got a great width and depth of. And I've got a lot of stories from other musicians for you. So. 

So, first album you bought. 

I am almost embarrassed to say, I usually. I know what my first two were and I usually say the other one, but, you know, it was this one because it was so cutesy little kidsy. My first album was the first Jackson 5 album. Michael was like, I don't know, two years old. I'm exaggerating. He was like two years old singing lead A, B, C, you know. And the other album I bought like the day after was Tommy James and the Shondell's Crimson and Clover. And I, I commonly say that one first because I don't know, Michael Jackson was like a little baby. I don't want to tell people that was my first, but that was my first album. 

Excellent. Barbara, what was your first album? 

Oh, my gosh. My parents actually bought the album. It was the Beatles. 

There you go. 

Wow. That was a Christmas gift. That was my Christmas present. One year was the album from the Beatles. 

Well, that was not the first one that was given to you, but the first one you bought. 

Oh, wow. You know, this is terrible. I don't remember buying an album. Isn't that something? I remember I had a single and I think, I don't remember the name of it right now, but it was about somebody who died in a car accident and it was a sad story. 

No wonder you went computer geek. All right, bring our last guest down on so we can move this topic along. 

Yes. All right. Deanna brenthamachek, welcome. 

Earlier you said that it may have been by Intelligent Design. I think this May have been purely by accident because I don't think KPHRED knows my full background. I was a sought after high school musician. Moved into going to be a. I was going to be a music teacher when I graduated from college. So I was doing the whole symphonic and orchestra, band and choir thing. Completely different side for most of the gentlemen that are here. Until I burnt out in only a way a neurodivergent person can. And dropped music completely for five years until I became a church pianist. So I've seen a bunch of different stuff but it's all in classical music. And I heard some of you guys are really doing really exciting stuff in like the actual music industry and I love that. 

Oh my gosh. I'm. I'm wondering how much many of us musicians have participated in a church music. Yep, there we go. 

My. 

Quite a few names. 

Yep. 

And the first album you bought? 

I actually bought two and it was Backstreet Boys, Backstreet Back and Cher's Believe. 

Album and I bought them together. 

So I think I just dated myself a little bit. 

Oh, that's. Yeah, I love this. Did we get everyone's first album they bought? 

I didn't share mine. 

Bring it. 

Well, I have to go back to singles also. The first song that I actually remember was Hit the Road Jack and then singles were Happy Jack by the who and also Light My Fire by the Doors. But then when some new things came out like eight tracks, I did start buying albums. So it's either got to be the Hallelujah album by Canned Heat or the first Credence Class Clearwater Revival album. 

Excellent, Ken. 

Yeah, so the first album I bought and I was a 12 or 13 year old and some of y' all will remember this was K Tel Yes Disco Party. I think it was the name of it had to rock the boat on there. Hughes Corporation, Gwen McRae, rock me baby. That was the first album I bought as a 12 year old. I was given Nazareth, Hair of the dog, eight tracks by John MacArthur across the street. 

Oh, that's. I remember one of my first. The first album I ever got given from my folks was a k Tel album one tin was it morning after and by Maureen McGovern and a couple others. That was the first one. But the first one I got was or bought was A Night at the Opera by Queen. Still a Bohemian Rhapsody fan, so fair. Just case in point, my daughter at about age 8 asked me never to sing in public. So out of everyone on here, I'm the musically challenged one. 

Oh my gosh. 

All right. So we've kind of established everyone's musical roots. I want, I want to break this down. What's. So Greg, I'm going to ask you to start this because I know of some of your journeys and what I'm going to call the music industry most recently. So for an artist, what's it like starting out in the music industry, your. 

Experiences depends on what you mean by. 

Starting out, going into. So I know you've gone into. 

You. 

Leased, rented, whatever, stuck somebody up, blackmailed them to get something like that to get into a music studio and record things with studio musicians. I know because you're the one who came up with the head thumping pillars of franchising song, which once you hear, you never forget, even if you want to. 

Yeah, I guess depending on your perspective, if you're gonna try to make a career out of it, what I have to say doesn't apply because this was always my secondary thirdary thing. Saving animals with music isn't the same as being just a musical artist trying to make a living. But having said that, starting out, my biggest recommendation is go to open mic nights and meet every artist and local musician you can and talk to them about what you want to do. And you'll find some that you jive with, that you enjoy their music and they know things you don't and then they can help you. It's, it's free, it's low key, it's fun and so like that. 

But all right, so I, I don't doubt that's really good advice, but you're really not dealing with the industry structure for per se of getting your records produced and sent out to radio or concerts or TV or whatever else we're using to beam stuff out to. 

Well, nowadays you can do that all yourself. You can self record, self produce, there's courses on how to do that. You can buy any kind of equipment you need from. I'm in your little studio here that's got everything I need. And so hiring a professional producer gets you a better result. But you don't have to do that. You can, you can learn it all yourself and you can release it yourself on all the streaming platforms cheaply. It literally costs nothing but to be listened to, actually listen to, that costs a lot more time and money. 

You know, I just gotta share. Back in the 80s, we recorded in a garage and we got our single pressed into a single 45 RPMC. Not a CD but a hard copy single. And then we also recorded on cassette tape and we Had a little. I think it was a task, a little recorder that would. Four had four channels that you could record through. So we had microphones all over the room. And then we took that recording up to KPHRED, who is a Los Angeles radio station, and. And our song got played on KPHRED. That was. That was how we did it back in the day before live streaming, before. 

The Internet, and now. Now. So in other words, in the disconnected days, which we all remember because. Well, Nathan's the youngest one. Well, no, maybe Deanna is. I don't know. It's a. It's a. There. We all remember the disconnected days. So I guess I'm trying to establish a baseline of what the industry was like back when were growing up, let alone going back to classical music. Although Deanna could probably talk a bit about that to. Now you've got this. I can go into Udo Suno, couple of other ones, and I have. And create music I like just like that. So when I look at that huge. 

Change. 

If I can create all the music I like, why do I ever need to go and listen to somebody else? 

That's a great question. You would only go and listen to somebody else if you happen to like their music too. 

I don't like to be in a silo of my own music. I like to expose myself to different genres or different artists because I can. It's sort of like the lonely world to play for yourself and write all your own things. But I think it's part of how we learn. It's part of how I grew up to listen. I remember when Michael Jackson was on. I think it was ABC or something with the Billie Jean performance. And that was transformational for the world, I think because of. There was. There were so few options and channels and it was big impact. Right. So listening to other people, I think shapes us. Right. So I really enjoy that and play if I could write all my own things. And I mean, I do write my own things, but that's me. And I'm kind of bored. 

I would be a boring existence for me. I like to listen to other people things and get cultured and to learn different people's perspectives and all that. 

I don't. I don't disagree with you. For me, one of those moments was Freddie Mercury on stage at Live Aid. 

Oh, wow. 

And I. I don't disagree with you. But when I look at the ability that it's not. I can give it four words and give it any genre and it can spit stuff out at me multiple Stuff. Who wants to jump in on this? Mick? 

Well, I think you ought to go back and see how music is done. 

Is. 

It's still the crucial point that I think Nathan had brought up. And it comes back to, what is AI? Does AI a human product, or is AI artificial? Is it an extension of what we've done before? Somebody mentioned a synthesizer. But how was music created? Music was always created in community. So I go way back when, let's say when we have Gregorian chant, it came out of a certain context. It came out of people. And classical music then was clearly had something to do with a community and a group of people. So we got a long story short. As we've gotten more and closer to our own day and age, it's moved away from that, and it's also moved away from some sort of foundation or some sort of community. 

So by the time you start talking about, let's say there's gospel music, Thomas Dorsey, then you get into more contemporary forms with Sam Cooke. All of that still, to me, reads like a community. When you get through Motown again, these are all songs that were group people, human beings gathering together. When it starts to unravel, in my opinion, I love the Beatles, but it starts to go, well, this is a little more individualistic. And then you still get hints of a community. Grandmaster Flash perhaps, talking about certain things, certain. Certain issues. But it seemed more and more individualistic and more isolated. So to me, that's also the limitation of AI it's completely artificial. What community? Is it a part of it? Is it a part of anything? What's the foundation there. 

Deanna? 

I also wanted to throw in that this is not a dissimilar conversation than the one were having 20 years ago as we began truly digitizing music. That something was lost between those traditional recording styles and digital. It's. It's almost like as we're transitioning into this AI generated music, we're losing another layer of something human. 

I remember those conversations, Deanna, Going from the playing on the record player with a needle and going through the speakers and then going to digital was. It was a big conversation then. I remember that transition. Yeah. And now we're transitioning again to AI and there's just, you know, I heard a. I've heard AI produced songs, and there's just something that's. Inauthentic is a word. I'll say inauthentic about it. That's. That's it. 

Ken, you want to jump in here? You look. You look like you got something to say. 

I always got something to say. 

Good. 

Bring it. That makes it interesting, my friend. 

Yeah. Because I'm just thinking. I'm thinking about music, and music is obviously in the eye of the beholder. And if you're an individual that likes AI music because you don't know better, and I hate to use that term, don't know better, then that's cool if it gives you a feeling. And that feeling is of joy. You feel euphoria, sexy, anger, whatever it may be. I listen to some heavy metal and I was a big heavy metal fan because I want to be angry, okay? I'm cool. Let's be. Just listen some Slayer and get angry, okay? That is a mode. And I can use AI, that's heavy metal, you know, Slayer, Salvatore, or whoever I want to listen to. And it's done by AI. And I can still get angry, okay? I can still get that. That mood. But there's. There is a loss. 

I think there's a loss. You know, in my age, music was different. And that there was a lot of physical aspects to music. And what I mean by that, you had to pull the album out, you had to clean the album, you had to put it on the record player. For me, it was a techniques with a sure ME795HE cartridge. Put it down on the song you wanted. If you weren't. There's only so many Dark side of the Moons that you could listen to the whole side. But usually it was one or two songs that you liked, and you'd listen to that song, took the album off, clean the next one and put it on. There was that physical. And like, you couldn't wait to put the needle down, you know, to be able to have that physical connection with the album. 

You looked at the album cover. I mean, I could just go on. So I think there's a loss there. But let me say this, with streaming is the greatest thing for me that ever happened with music because I had an opportunity to be exposed. I didn't have all those albums from the 70s. I didn't have them. And I. I have probably somewhere maybe 10, 15,000 songs I have in my Spotify that I like. There were songs I didn't hear for 30 years. I had a chance to go back and listen to Love Changes by Mother's Finest. Most of you guys don't know who that group is, but it was a song I loved in 1975. I didn't listen to it for 30 some years because I couldn't find it. 

Now I went online and I could find it in five seconds and I can get that feeling that came up. So I'll pipe back in whenever you ask me. But again, that physical aspect of music is gone. And if people enjoy AI music, it's just that most of the time we can't. We can. Those who have been listening to music for 30, 40, 50 years can tell that this is junk. And that's our opinion. That's our opinion. Most of the music that's coming out that's popular is junk. That's my opinion. But it doesn't mean that another, a 15 year old girl in Peoria, Illinois or wherever can like it, God bless her, like it, enjoy it. And so that's somewhat of my feelings. And we can go more into the digitalization of music and AI itself. 

All right, so. And you know, the. Everyone I'm a, everyone said things I agree with and I look at it of no one's touch on the most memorable concert or the first concert they went to or the last concert they went to. And where I look at this is we're all old, we're all pre Internet, pre connected. We're the last of the homo sapiens because we become homo digitalis. 

Okay. 

I see this now that New York state put in a rule saying kids can't have cell phones in school. My daughter keeps the grandkids one hour a day on the screens because she says it's like crack. And yet I know there's a whole lot of parents out there for whatever reason sticking their kids in front of screens. So they're always connected. They're not going to have what Ken said of that. Detector of the difference, right? 

Can I just jump back to album covers? Because oh my gosh, what a huge disappointment CD covers were, right? Covers were the bomb. And sometimes they'd stick a sleeve inside so you could pull out the lyrics and stuff. I mean, albums were amazing. And then the whole artistry part of the musical art, I mean, there's musical art, but the artistry of the album cover and the inserts that they put, all of that went away. And I. 

How they smelled. Barbara, do you remember how albums smell like the smell of the ink and the paper and all that? 

I remember that, yes. Well, I just, you know, I just loved the art on the album covers. And when it went to a CD and it was so tiny, it got lost, all that artistry got lost. So. And then, I mean, there's still the little icons now. You get a little icon with music. 

Now, if I can add something to this. 

Yes. 

My. What I find the biggest difference to be is that older folks were actually physically engaged with the music. They listened to one. You didn't just sit at home with your phone or your PC and do a search for whoever it is you wanted to listen to and listen to them. Granted, it was good. You could hear the artist or whatever. No, you had to get up. You got to get dressed, you got to get a little money, you got to walk to the record store, and then you're gonna spend time. I can remember blowing afternoons in tower records, just going from floor to floor and looking at albums and, oh, I. Maybe I should get this one. And then I'd, like, make a stack of, like, 10 albums. And I look at my wallets, like, okay, I'm not. 

I don't have 10 albums in my wallet right now. So then I got a Triage my choices and, you know, make sure that I pick the right ones. And then I could go home and I could look at the record and look at the thing in the center. I used to love zeppelin albums because the swan song thing in the center. But there isn't that physical connection where you actually had to put effort into your choices. So, I mean, I look at. Okay, perfect example. I'm going to see the who tomorrow. I don't necessarily see very many artists from now being able to carry their artistry through decades, because part of my enjoyment of the who is all of that stuff that went with. With being a who fan. 

You know, you go places and you hear about them, you buy an album, you know, people are talking about that album, and no, man, you know, Keith moon, who's just not same anymore, blah, blah. All of that's kind of gone. And. And I'm thinking that it. Once we start introducing. Once we started to introduce technology into that and like, different things that they had to tweak with it. I mean, I remember as. As a drummer hating the idea of a drum machine, if for no other reason than because it was perfect. There were no imperfections. It hit every beat, exactly where, and when it was supposed to. And after a while, people began to notice, wow, that sounds mechanical. 

So they actually programmed imperfection into a drum machine so that they would occasionally be a little ahead of the beat, maybe a little behind the beat, so that it could sound a little bit more like a human. And that worked for a while. Fortunately, drummers came back to the forest like, no, no, no. This is what it's supposed to sound like this. 

But with AI I'm thinking that from an artist's perspective, not all artists, but I am afraid that a lot of artists are simply not going to be necessary anymore because someone sitting at their desk is going to be able to craft an AI song that's just gonna take over the world for 15 minutes instead of the artist that could have done the same thing, but they're not going to get the same exposure because quite frankly, record companies do not want to pay the artist. They don't want to pay all of those publicists, they don't want to do all that. But if they can put someone behind the desk to come up for something, put it on Spotify and bang, they've got their millions of listens. Why do anything else? 

So part of where I just went and what you said is AI is going to weed out what we'd call the one hit wonders. More than that, but at a base level. And, and I'm, it's going to wipe out the one hit wonders because you know, those are the folks that went out there and in a simpler era, what's a famous. What was Kung Fu Fighting? Yeah, I remember that. 

Seventh grade Paul Douglas. 

Yeah. 

Damn, dude, you're good. 

I am good when it comes to music like that. 

All right, so what was your favorite one? Wilton. What was your, one of your favorite one hit wonders? And Ken, you. 

Okay, actually my favorite One hit wonder is a band that made a one hit wonder in the 70s. Ooh, child, things are going to get easier. They reformed as a disco band and had another one hit wonder all night thing. I, I, I love those guys because I mean, you know, I mean that's almost like, you know, my favorite football team. Sorry. Minnesota Vikings. Being able to go to the super bowl four times, lose all four times. But these guys had a one hit wonder that was huge and nothing. And then suddenly they reformed and they had another one hit wonder. It's like, wow, you guys, I don't know you, I don't know how you managed it, but you know. 

Good on you chemistry. So Ken, you're one hit wonder. 

I got so many of them, I'll just go. To Hell With Poverty by Gang of Four 1981. 

Nathan. 

Gosh, I, I liked Bette Davis eyes way back. Oh, Tim Carnes. I liked some of that, those early, you know, it was late 70s and I would go with my older brother and sister to the roller skating rink and that would be an experience another Example of physical experience with music. Right. And you would hear stuff that. I mean, I was younger, so I wouldn't know. Or they would have something on the radio or on some late night Dick Clark show. Right. That's how I got exposed to things as the young. I was the baby of the family. And so I got to be exposed by going to the roller rink and hearing Ken Karnes. And I was just like infatuated, right? Too young to be that infatuated with Ken Karnes, I think, because her voice. Right. 

Amen to that. Mickey. 

Ain't got nothing yet. The Blues Magoos. But of course, everybody's favorite one hit wonder has got to be Spirit in the sky by Norman Greenbaum. 

Oh, yeah, he died recently. Within the last couple of years, I assume. 

Remember? 

All right, Greg. 

Favorite one hit wonder because I have to oppose everything. I have a favorite one hit non wonder. That means I have a band. I loved many, many of their songs. Other hits they had. But then they had this one hit and they got all these new fans and I couldn't even get into the concert. The line that the Cars was backed up on Route 59 up to Poplar Creek. And we got in there after the. The first set was already done because of one stupid song. And it's. To me, it's their worst song. The band is Dire Straits and the song is Money for Nothing, Chicks for Free. And that Money for Nothing song is my one hit non Wonder. Because I hate what it did to the way people look at that band. 

Because if you look at everything they did before that album and other songs on that album, they're great. They're. They're just fantastic. Great rock and roll, great guitar work. Yet that one song defines them for millions of people. 

All right, May I ask a question about that, though? 

Go for it. 

Because I remember that song too. And, And. And I remember being kind of a die Straits fan. But the thing that propelled that song, I think didn't have anything to do with regular airplay. That was an MTV thing. 

That was Ken Karnes. So is Ken Karnes. 

Remember the song? That song was there. It was about mtv. It was about an artist getting their song on MTV was what the lyrics were about. 

Right? 

Money for Nothing. 

But I'm saying that pushed that song perhaps a lot further than it would have otherwise gone. I mean, one of my favorite 80s bands, a flock of Seagulls. Come on. If it wasn't for mtv, you even. I have to admit that if it wasn't for mtv. Those guys would have gone nowhere. I mean, I went to see them in concert and that was the only concert that I've ever been to where the actually had to do repeats because they didn't have enough material to actually do an entire set. They did a couple of songs twice. And because they had to fill out the time. So crazy. So, you know, I mean, I still love them. I. You know, but even I have to admit. Nah, MTV did that to you. 

MTV was a game changer for the music industry because now you not only had to be a musician, you had to get on camera and have a presence behind. Yeah. Present. You know, it had to be visual as well as audio. It was like a totally different shift. And it was MTV that did that. 

And you want to jump in? 

Yeah. Yeah. So when I think of that whole thing, the mtv. I was there from the beginning, literally from. Because the first song was Bangles. I never forget that Radio killed the whatever video killed the radio star. That's the first video they played. I said, I know somewhat of the history of mtv and I was. You know, that was my formative college years. And I always remember there was one song that was a one hit. You could. You can do modern English. That was another one that they had their one little hit. But the song that I always remember, I'm like, this song is crap. But the video made. It was. 

Aha. 

Remember that? It was. It was a cartoon. It was some race car. 

Yeah. 

Take on me. 

It would suck. 

And I said, tommy, this song sucked. But it got huge because of mtv. Then you have great bands that were not very. Maybe photogenic. You know, you could say something like maybe a Judas Priest or what's the bad Motorhead? Lemmy is one of the ugliest men of all time. And so he was not photogenic as the lead for Motorhead. Anybody who's a heavy metal knows what I'm talking about. Old Lemmy and. But they wouldn't. They can blow up. So instead we'll give it to, you know, someone else from that era. Pour a Little sugar on me or whatever that thing was. But anyway, it's a lot of that is visual. And I'd love if we. If we ever go to the part about going to concerts and that because AI can't produce a concert, there's no band. 

That's right. 

Wait, before you say that, are you. Do you remember the artist Psy? I think he's Korean. He, he. He had that song, Big Gangnam Style or something like that. 

I remember the song and there's a lot of videos on with that song playing. 

But he had a follow up to that. The name of the song is Gentlemen Now Listening to the song. He's got a video for it and all of that. That's, that's kind of one thing. But I saw the main video for the song, which was actually him doing this song live. And the one thing that I noticed about it was that him being there, he was just a prop. All he was doing was mouthing lip singing to this song. And he had lots and lots of dancers behind them and there were visuals. And when I think of AI, it's like I can very easily see a human just being a prop or something that was generated by AI and they just happen to be the face that they put in front of that AI song. 

So I'm not gonna. Before you get all that, we're still in the MTV age because to me there was, we've talked about the albums we bought and Ken, I think it was mentioned about concerts and, but I, I want. Would the group. Nathan referenced Ugly dude now not getting played. Now I'm going to reference Culture Club. 

Okay. 

Would Culture Club and Boy George ever become the international 1 album, whatever you want group and even he would tell you he's only ever remembered for. I know whatever the big one was. Karma Chameleon. Would that have ever hit without MTV. 

Internationally? 

No. Go ahead, Deanna. 

Local phenomenon. 

Right. So now that MTV was that first step because when you look at mtv. Who referenced Dire Straits? Greg did. Because a whole of that was a lot that was cgi. And more and more in the video started using Oddball. It was more about the graphics than it was the artist. And when I take this now forward into what you started going to Wilton with the AI is that I already see a whole lot of video out there. AI video where they're taking likenesses of themselves and programming that video. 

Okay, wait, I, I guess the group, if you can call them that, which most clearly illustrates what I'm talking about, is Milli Vanilly. Seriously, they were props. They didn't, they had nothing to do really with the music behind them. You know, they lip syncing, you know, girl, you think it's true and all of that. So I, I, I see that becoming more the norm, if you will. And, and okay, the reason that I brought up Psy was because the concert that they showed with him just lip syncing, he packed an arena and it was obvious that's all he was doing. And yet he was able to bring tens of thousands of people in there to jump up and down and sing and yell and holler and enjoy themselves. So it's like, okay, I, I see that. 

And it's like, well, that is a logical progression. So. 

Deanna, a little side thing to that. Wilton, before I move on from psy, do you know that in Korea and maybe other Asian countries they have schools where kids go and learn that specific. 

Yeah. 

Type of dancing, Whatever you call it, I don't know what it's called, but whatever you call it, there's thousands and thousands of kids learning how to be in the be a dancer behind sai, basically. 

And that was what Motown brought. So Deanna put her hand down, we'll come back to her. But Ken, you got your hand up. 

Deanna was before me though. Please. 

Yeah, you open your mouth. 

Well, I was going to say, as Wilton was talking, I know it's not a direct correlation, but I suddenly got this mental image from one of my favorite old action movies, Demolition man, of Sandra Bullock driving a self driving car, singing Armor Hot dogs commercials, that if AI takes over, music is going to be like 30, 45 second snippets that get stuck in people's head and that's it. 

I don't, I would argue that happens now, but go ahead, Ken. 

You know, one of the fundamental questions that as a group I'd hope we could maybe touch upon what is real in music? What is real in music? Because most music, unless it's a live album, is not real. They didn't play together as a band. You lay down your drum track, they come in, they do the vocals, the bass comes in and works with the rhythm. The lead guitars, I've been in studios, you cut like 10 different solos. You know, you have your rhythm, but you cut 10 different solo. And then on the mixing board you put it all together. The band doesn't play together and you know, there's bands. Anybody knows the story of Boston knows that Tom shot, he did that all himself. 

He had to go out and find a singer, you know, Delk or Delk, you know, so you know what is real and you know, so people are getting upset with the AI because it's not real. But a lot of the bands that you think the whole disco music is not real, it's Giorgio Moroda in a studio with some hired speakers creating change. He just got lucky. Or one of the guys got lucky and got Luther Vandross to create that band and sing on two of the songs, that's what created Luther was change. So again, people getting all upset with AI. I'm not saying everybody on this thing, but a lot of people are getting upset with AI music. But really, what is the reality of the music you think and loved and grew up with as a band? 

Because many bands also didn't go out on stage. Anybody knows Steely Dan, which is one of my favorite bands of all time. They stopped touring after like their second album. They never toured and they did. And Fagan and his partner did their thing in the studio and brought in studio musicians, but they never played together. 

Actually, I have to tell you, Ken, they must have started doing it way later because I actually saw them at Ravinia. The two of them before he. Before the guitarist died. 

Yeah, they came back. They stopped in the 70s. Yeah. But they did stop. 

Concert experience all the time was. 

They're awesome. Awesome. 

They performed. They performed the Asia album in order and every damn note was exactly the same and they performed it live. So is that real? 

That's real. Well, it's as real as you were hearing it. If you were chemically altered, then who knows? Nathan, you wanted to say something? 

I was gonna say so I mean this is all just awesome conversation. I'm just so happy to be here and happy to meet all you and everything. Music and video and production has always followed like the expression of what the latest greatest is. 

Right? 

And now AI may not always replace the musicianship. It may completely be all of the artists, but also AI is embedded in the production workflows for both visual, for concert technology and for audio production and audio composition and so on. My company, we one of our creative directors, Jeff, who's a wizard by the way, with creative and with AI audio, he's got it's. It's an example where we don't have to pay artists, right? We just go boom, prompt it out. And now we've got custom themed, multi genre, commercial, licensable, usable music. And we wouldn't have been able to use that because we wouldn't have been able to afford that as a startup, right? And yet I'm a drummer, guitar player, songwriter, feeling that same thing of like the. The organic nature of music. 

And I think of painters and photographers going through this same kind of progression. But if we think back music like we talked about the art of early MTV videos and I want my MTV and like I can't Brian Adams or different kinds of pop artists that were experad Stewart people experimenting with visual art, that was because of the state of graphics of that time and now AI is yet the latest incarnation of modern technology that is used live. It's. I saw. 

Who's the. 

The artist that does the R B stuff? Gosh, no, I forget the name, but it was like it was AI being used on a screen projecting really state of the art imagery. And I was like, it was bringing AI into the live environment. And that place was like bumping. It was like a club. Everybody was just grooving and dance. I was like, oh my gosh, this is a live show with AI integrated. It was crazy. But so my point, I guess is like we're going to use AI because it's the new pro tools. It's the new digital guitar synthesizer. It's the new Boss Me ten foot pedal, right? It's the new voice harmonizer. 

Barbara. Right. 

Like AI can. Can help you have things that you couldn't otherwise have. And yet I go back and when I write my cheesy love songs, they're totally unplugged, acoustic, only me in a room, no AI. 

Right. 

And then I wanted to just mention one other thing for the group to think about. 

What does. 

What does it mean to express creativity? Like, maybe it's not a bar. At least it seems it's evolving for me. I sit alone and create for me. And so the meaning economy becomes relevant because there was a time where I created because I wanted to be the Iron Maiden Band, right? I wanted to be. Have the live theatrics of Eddie and all the cool things. 

That's. 

That was my first concert stuff. And there may have been LSD involved. Okay, there was, but it was amazing. And like, still think of it. And it was like bigger than life because it was chemically enhanced. So I'll give you that. But I went to like four of those tours in a row because of the live experience. And there was no way I then and now I would almost say, what is the point of like, you know, do we all want to have that as a career? Most of us are in tech if we want to pay our bills, right? So the music doesn't pay the same way. So all the financial models are changing. I could go on and on, KPHRED. But wow, is the role of all of it different? And what is the meaning? 

I write a song so that I can express me in that song and capture an emotion. AI can't do that. But somebody else may say, to your point, Ken, they can enjoy that and that like my company can create something and do something. It couldn't have otherwise. So I just feel like it's not or it's not this or that. It's like it's a big buffet of all these options and we get to decide why are we doing it and what is our intention with doing it. 

So for our viewers, for our listeners, I'm holding up the guitar I bought a couple of years back, and while I can make music with AI if I go and play this, you're all going to tell me that ain't music on the guitar. Just wanted to put that in. Mick, you've been quiet. Chime in. 

Well, I think it has to do with the law of entropy. And what I mean by that is that if you look at creativity, let's start with something in a group like the Beatles, one of the most, arguably the most creative ever. They start to go into magical mystery tour cartoon. They go into television. Then somebody else, oh, you know, we should kind of imitate them. So then you have the monkeys, and then the monkeys do what? They go on television, they go to a cartoon. Then after that somebody says, oh, yeah, let's just kind of refine that. How about the Archies? How about bubblegum music? And I still say, yummy, yummy, I got love in my tummy because it's catchy. 

So I think what I'm trying to say is it depends on the origin, because I'm open to the argument that it is not as human when we start with AI, but the origin point has got to be somewhere the humans to begin with. And then we refine and then we change over time and evolve and see how people use it. So I remember Frankenstein, where you have this song, it's a synthesizer. And I go, okay, that was pretty trippy about a nine minute song. But then it kind of gets old after a while too, because it's too long and it's too much. And then somebody else changes it. Go into. My point is, I think it just evolves. So I think where AI is, it does the things that Nathan pointed out, the things that we can't do things better. 

So it is analogous to all the artificial things I have. I have contacts on. I can't see, so I have contact. There's a car behind me that gets me from point A to point B faster. So AI can is like that. It can enhance us and it can enhance human ability. But I don't think it replaces whatever that human element is, and it won't ever. But I do think it's one of Those very shiny objects. A tool that you could say it's another tool. Let's see how it gets applied. Let's see where we can direct it to. 

All right, before we go to Nathan, Barbara's been dying to jump in here. 

Oh, my gosh. I don't know if I've been dying to jump in, but speaking of dying an AI, I'm just like, this is totally out of left field, so forgive me for that, but I was on LinkedIn and somebody did a post where their teenage son committed suicide at with the assistance of AI Because AI was going, oh, you did a great job tying that knot. Oh, you did. And just because AI is supposed to be encouraging, I guess it's programmed to encourage us to be good at things. And so anyway, she just posted it as a warning to parents of teenagers. You know, be careful not to let your kids on AI if they're using it for that kind of thing. It's just, that was really heartbreaking, and I know that was out of left field, so I apologize for that. 

All right, so you took us down that where it. So I don't want to go into computer ethics because that's normally my normal rant. And if a computer had ethics, it wouldn't be allowed to do that. It would go and report somebody. But then again, how many humans don't have ethics? So. 

Very true. 

I'm going to go back to Deanna. And Deanna, open your mouth. And then let's introduce our newest victim. I mean, G joining. 

Well, I mean. 

Okay, so I feel like I almost need to throw this back a little bit. What is music and what is its purpose? And at the core, fundamentals, music is just vibrations in the air around us that is designed to elicit certain emotional responses. So we go back to like classical music. Mozart, Bach, Beethoven. Those guys didn't just perform on instruments. They crafted environments to created to amplify the sounds that they were creating to make bigger, more dynamic emotional responses to the extent that their music is still here four and 500 years later and used commonly in modern day. We go to concerts and we feel the vibration of the bass moving through us. And we have a group experience where we are all feeling the same thing or near the same thing at the same time. Collectively, we. 

I feel like as we're moving into this AI, it's over personalized. It's okay. So I can drop a couple of words into an AI thing and have it make my music playlist for the day. And it's uber personalized. And I've never shared this experience with anyone else unless I share a link that they may or may not click on and listen to. And it removes that collective experience. 

So what you're saying is that music is nothing more than the biochemical individual's response to trying to create order in the universe. 

I mean that's uber technical way of saying it, but yeah, kind of. 

I mean literally that and. And what we're all objecting to is that or what the primary objection to AI music is that it's one size fits all. There's no character, no authenticity. No, it's mechanical. It's mechanical. It's not. 

I think that's still subjective. 

It is. No arguments because we all have that different viewpoints of what it would be. But to Deanna's point, that group experience, you go, and everybody is like minded that they want to see the. The group that they're in and they're all going listening the same way. And there's that bass that and the music and the rhythm that moves through you. So that music is programming in a group way, people to have. Ken pulled it. That said that response, that emotional biochemical response. 

Right. I can't imagine Woodstock ever happening with just AI. 

I mean even to a more micro scale. Many. I remember it just barely. I'm just old enough to remember it. Sitting in front of my dad's speakers and the feeling of a room of four or five people listening to an album together as the sound emits from four or five speakers sitting next to the record player, there's still that shared experience that when you plug your headphones in and you listen to your AI generated sound, it's just gone. 

Well, I. I can buy. And there was a shared experience that when you'd crank that stereo album up and neighbors four houses down could hear it now. 

Oh my gosh, how many times do we all get turn that down from the other room. Right? 

No, it was turn that damn record down. Nathan, go ahead and say like here. 

We are, several humans in a room. And I was in a miserable mood before joining this call. Miserable. Okay. Facing some difficulties, not having a fun ER with my girlfriend yesterday. Enjoyed it because she's well. But not a fun day, right? And here I am this morning enjoying this. These other humans, all of you here. But it. I am having the subjective experience of joy and connectedness. Now if that were all, if you were all AIs, I could technically still be having that experience, right? But I'm. It's totally translucent. So what is music? Well, it's transformative, it's. It's therapeutic, it's uplifting. Maybe it's cathartic and AI could give us all that, but it's up to us to make it mean what we want it to mean. Go ahead, Will. 

Well, first Ken, because. Ken. And then we'll come. Wilton. Go ahead, Ken. I knew you were next. 

I got. I got some thoughts on a few things, but I'm just gonna talk to one or two of them. Number one, live performances are not going away. Now, as long as we're alive, they're not going away. In fact, digital music has done more for live performances, for classic rock than anything. Because now we can go back and listen to, you know, a band from the 70s, and all of a sudden Molly Hatchet is playing down the street. Hell, let me go to see Molly. Molly Hatchett. You know, I even thought about, I had to come up with a wild band, you know, but the idea. Somebody just talked about a band that they're going. I was in a meeting just earlier today, and a guy had a shirt on for Slayer. I didn't even know Slayer was still playing. 

They got their last world tour and he had the T shirt. And I'm like, I'm trying to think, man, maybe I can get to Seattle and go see Slayer in November. Okay. So anyway, the idea that, that music, and this is another thing people and I believe may understand. You are only seeing like 1% or 2% of the bands that are out there make it, that do national tours. That's it. People that make money on Spotify, there's only like 2% that the Beyonce's that make good money out of it. And most of them don't make hardly any money if they make any money. So again, we're just seeing a small portion, but I want to just talk about one go down. It's not a different rabbit hole. But I want to talk about Suno AI. 

And I don't know if anybody has dealt with Suno AI. Suno AI. 

So my. 

One of my mentees, I mentor men all over the country. One of my mentees said, hey, Ken, can you listen to my album? Like, I didn't know you played. And he sent me this album of his songs. And I'm like, when the hell did you start listening to country and western? Because he had a country in western, he had a techno, he had a rock and roll. And it's his voice and it's his themes about his company. And it was like 12 songs. I'm like, what the hell is this? I didn't know about Suno. You know, I've been working with 11 labs and all that because I do stuff in AI. But anyway, what I. What we're going to see is this. And I cannot wait. Some of you remember a thing called mashups. 

Does anybody raise their hand who remembers what a mashup is? Okay. 

Multiple people, folks. 

Yeah. A mashup is. Is usually a guy at a computer that takes multiple songs and puts them together and makes a larger song. And it was something that got really popular, especially early 2000s. It was this one guy I remember. Anyway, what I want to do when I write, I have a customer GPT that uses James Baldwin as my voice because I think he's the finest non fiction writer or essayist. And that's the voice I use. What I would love to do is take some of the songs from the past, use AI and say instead of this lead singer, make Luther Vandross the lead singer. And then create that mashup for me and then give it back to me. And it's just for me. I'm not gonna put it out in the public realm. I would love that. I love Luther Vandross. 

I love Marvin. 

You can do that now. 

You can. 

I didn't know. I didn't know that. That's why I'm thinking it's good if you can talk to me offline. I would love to play. 

I have videos. I have videos where it took a photo of me and a voice sample of me talking. Just maybe two, three sentences. And I write in the text and goes text to speech and it and everything. And it uses my voice and. And if it to me, I could be. I could pick it apart. But for any of you that don't hear me every day, you'd be like, that's Nathan talking. 

Well, I don't want my voice. Nobody wants my voice. 

But you could feed a sample of Luther Vandross. 

Yeah. 

Remix it or make a mashup of it. So that was my point. 

That that's what. So that's where I'm. I believe things are going. And I would love to see that. That's enough for me. 

Dear God. I just heard there's going to be a KPHRED version of Thunderstruck by acdc as well as all the other back in Black. Highway to Hell, here I come. All right, we. We've had a new guest show up. Barbara, you want to bring our. Our newest martyr victim. 

Guest. Hi, Is it Ely? Just want to make sure I said that right. Welcome. Hello. 

Hi, Barbara. 

Hi. 

So I, I met her before. I won't say where. So tell everyone about, tell all of our listeners as well as our panelists about yourself. And then what's the first album you bought and what's the first rock concert you went to? 

Oh, wow. Sorry. Sorry for being late, by the way. But so me, I am actually, I speak on cultural intelligence, and I'm not sure if you are familiar with that term, but in case, for those that aren't familiar, it's basically the ability to navigate and function across diverse cultures effectively. So I'm not necessarily a musician expert or anything, but I do love music. I listen to different types of genres and also languages. I'm Asian, but I love Latin music. So the first concert, which types of concerts, again, were you asking? 

KPHRED, you said in any concert that you went to, that was where they were playing live music. 

Oh, live music. Oh, my gosh. That was in my island hometown of Guam back in the 80s and it was Menudo. 

Often confused in California with a type of meat or Kansas. 

Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, we didn't get a lot of live performers come to the island because nobody knows what it was or what it is or where it's at. But that was a big deal for us. Like the. There's these guys from, I think, Puerto Rico. Right. Is what I thought. And all of a sudden they're pretty big in Guam, which is a tiny island in the middle of nowhere. So they were my first concert and my rock. Oh, I don't know if I've been to any, but I'm open to going, I guess. 

All right. So I've been remiss. If you're listening and you've got questions for our panelists, you can call in at 1-724-957-4733. That's 1-724957, KPHRED or K. KPHRED, for those of you who misspell it. Where our topic today is the music industry, from classical to rock. How will AI change it? And I, I understand that we're in that whole group thing and the group experience. I will share that. I, the. I used to love going to live concerts, but the last several I've been to, I fell asleep. 

Because that happened. KPHRED, tell us. 

Well, I get into the music, I close my eyes and just kind of let it flow through me. And usually the bass makes me drop off. 

Interesting, interesting. 

The last concert I went to was a couple of years back was Don McLean, and he was doing American Pieces. Now, the last song he did in the hour long set was American Pie. That's why everybody went. And he did a couple of the songs at the beginning that had minor fame. And it was about the third song that I dropped off just in time to wake up for American Pie. 

Oh my gosh. That is really unusual to be out in public and sleeping, especially at a rock concert. I don't know. 

I've done it actually at a couple. 

Really? 

You're so lively here on the radio, KPHRED, so you would never know that. You would. 

Is that a condition? 

Like, is it concert? There must be like something in the DSM 5 for that. 

I could be. And yeah, American pie is like 20 minutes long. And you know, it was one of those first songs. I think I was 8 or 9, 10 maybe when it came out and, you know, knew that three men admire. I admire most Father, Son and Holy Ghost Caught the last train for the coast, you know, so. And then there was that deeper meaning of all the events of the 60s. And I do agree, I find it difficult to believe that a computer system, computer software. I started out life as a programmer and I know how stupid computers are. The only thing stupid are people. Exactly. Am 1970, Ken. I was nine. But if you've never had those visceral moments, that is. 

My wife and I were sitting in a sandwich stage, sandwich shop and a song came on and the song was Rock Me Gently. Anybody remember that one? Huh? You remember? And I. And I'm singing it and my wife's looking at. I said, andy Ken. And she went, andy Ken. I said, yeah, that's who did it. And. And I'm just singing it. She was telling me, would you calm down? We're in the sandwich shop, you're looking like a psycho. And it was one of those things of. There was a girl that I remember that I had that puppy love thing going on. And so there's that very emotional biological response that it brought out as a kid listening to it. And that's what music does, is it brings out that biological response, whether we're writing it or we're listening to it. 

I mean, KPHRED, we've known for decades that when we've got people with things like Alzheimer's and dementia and we play the music of their youth, it re engages those parts of the brain that had memory and they remember the moments where that music was important to them. 

Oh my gosh, that's such a good point, Deanna. I know that with my husband, he's always talking about songs that'll come up. And he always is relating that song to the moment he first heard it. So it's just, you know, it always takes him back to when he first heard that song, what he was doing, where he was at, who he's with. I mean, it's like brings back so many memories for him when hears a song. It's really amazing how many memories it brings back. So that's, yeah, really important. 

Mick, you got something that you want to say? I can tell. And then we'll hit Wilton. 

Well, we wanted to talk about the first concerts because that could certainly age a number of us because you had mentioned that. 

Bring it. 

All right, I'm going to go for it. So buddy of mine had a car. I was only 15, but he was 16. He had a car and I was living in Southern California. But we get a chance to go up to Hollywood, which always was very different because it was Holly weird, of course, and not Hollywood. It was September 14, 1973, and I heard an English band called Mattha Hoople. Hopefully somebody remembers them. 

They're big hit. 

If anything, if you remember them, was all the Young Dudes. So this guy came out, commanded the presence and was amazing. There was actually four bands on there because that was the 70s. So there was a local band. There was Blue Oyster Cult, There was Joe Walsh and Barnstorm and Mattha Hoopoe. And it was probably like a couple bucks. But in any case, lead singer was really impressive. Saw the power of rock and roll and everything. So I've been finding, following that guy ever since guys are still around, because I know there was a mention that some of the old bands are still there. He's only 86. He's 86 years young. But Ian Hunter does go out on the road occasionally. But that's the guy that I saw as a lead singer. I've been following him ever since. 

Wrote a book about him and some of that stuff. I know what you're saying, Barb, with your husband. Yeah, Some of these songs, they come back and instantly take you back. Like KPHRED said, I remember where I was, what I was listening to, who was around, who my buddies were and all those kinds of things. So it does bring back those memories, and it's good memories. The difference, I think, with AI to get my AI point in here, is that, yes, it can have some type of impact on us chemically and emotionally, but I do think it makes a difference if that thing that's creating it doesn't know itself the kind of impact it's having. 

Human Beings do so however the process comes together, whether it's sort of artificial or not, it's still with intention and it's still trying to reach people in a human to human sense. 

Something interesting that you just said, Mick, is when you're remembering the song and relating it to a memory, you just said it was a good memory. And I think, I don't know, I just. Is everybody relating a song that they heard when they hear it, are they remembering good things? I mean, do you ever remember having a bad experience with music? 

Well, that's the girls that didn't go for you. 

So. 

Cecilia by Simon and Garfunkel. There was a girl named Celia. So yes, there are some bad memories too, but she kind of pushed those away because I thought I was going to be cool. I got two vans in high school and then thereafter when I was a young person, didn't help any, but I thought the idea was to get the girl, get the van, get the music. Didn't really work out that way. 

Oh. 

Oh my gosh. Well, I, I think for me songs emote joy mostly. I don't really remember having any songs. Well, I guess you could, I don't know. There, there's, there are sad songs out there that could put you into a mel. Melancholy state, but I don't tend to listen to those. 

So, Wilton, you had your hand up. And then also answer the question of. Do you have. What? Do you have any songs you associate with bad things? 

Okay, I'll actually answer that question first. 

I figured you would. 

Some, some years ago, this was actually during the time that I was at Triad, believe it or not, really close friend of mine, one of my paternity brothers died suddenly. He, he had aneurysm and it just basically took him out. And I, I went, this happened in Jersey and I drove out to Jersey to attend the services and everything. And while I was on my way there, I heard this song of a genre that I didn't even know existed called country smooth jazz. I, I, I'd never known that there was such a thing, but, but I heard this song called the Confluence. If you have a chance to listen to it. It's, it's strange because it's a very sad song, which was an extraordinarily sad time that I was going through when I heard it. 

But also when I attended Steve's services, I saw fraternity brothers that I had not seen in decades. And these were my ride or die friends. And that song, it's Weird. I mean, I hear it. The first thought I have is of Steve and then everything that came from it. So, yeah, it's a memory of a bad time, but. But it also brings about memories of seeing all of those people that I got to see as well. So, yeah, it still makes me sad to hear it, but it's, it's a happy sadness, if there can be such a thing. 

No, I understand where you're coming from and that makes sense. You had something to say before I asked you that question, though. 

Yes. 

There are a lot of things that I'm hearing and I also think about AI music. But it reminds me of a lot of the conversations that I had with my friends over music over the decades. I mean, from the time I was in high school and were talking about the value of Frank Zappa and how an artist like that could never really be huge because of his genius was just too great and so forth and so on. There has always been this tension between corporate music and singer songwriter, purist music. 

And. 

I, I guess I'm hearing now the same thing that I've heard and experienced in the past was were always a little worried that whatever this new commercial juggernaut thing that was being raised and, and how it was going to destroy our chances of hearing the pure stuff, the good stuff. And I guess for me, it's still a question that I'm kind of throwing out to the group as strong and as powerful as AI could be, as far as music is concerned, are you concerned with it basically taking over and making it so we don't hear the good stuff anymore? 

Or so I would bet that AI will never come up with Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow. Or the other one that I flashed to of class. Class Sister Mary Elephant on Cheech and Chong. And I remember listening to that one in fifth grade and it was so scandalous. Yeah, I don't think AI is going to come up with anything like that. 

But. 

Ken, your thoughts? 

You know, I get so much going through it. First of all, I did put that in don't you die Yellow Snow as soon as you said Zappa. You know, I just remember that one so well. I, I wanted to just touch upon live music and also music and negative. So, and I'll just put it out there. I am a three time convicted felon. I spent 20 years on the streets as a drug dealer and criminal. Okay. That's my truth. I have a book. I wrote about it with My Ivy League education. There are music that I can put on today. There's a type of music called Hyphae and it's Bay Area rap music very specific to Northern California. 

And when I hear that, I literally slouch down in my seat, put my hand over my wheel and I'm back in that world of the streets and being a thug. And it's a negative. And I literally. I minimize my exposure to that music. I minimize my exposure to some of the heavy metal. I used to listen to a lot of heavy metal. And I'm talking about like early Metallica and I'm talking about Sepultura and groups and some of the Nordic heavy metal that I used to listen to. That puts me in an energy state. I want to destroy something that's just where my brain goes. But I rarely do that. But what I do want to also say, my first concert that I can really. That resonated with me was the Clash. 

Still, probably my favorite band of all time is the Clash out of Britain. And. But I have a moment and literally a 15 second, 30 second moment at a live concert with Metallica for whom the bells told the bass line. Anybody who knows that song at the Kingdome, Seattle, WA 1992. I still remember that moment. And it just almost brings chills to me. Remember that moment. That's what music does for me. And I stay more nowadays on the positive things. Listening to Luther Vandross. The House is Not a Home live. What I think is the finest, you know, rendition on live singing I've ever heard. But so I had those moments anyway. And again, AI can't do that live. 

But I believe with the mashups things we've talked about a little bit, I think I can produce or music will be created with AI that I will enjoy. That's again, my opinion on that. 

That remains to be seen yet. Right. 

You actually did make me think about the first concert I ever met. It was the Wilson sisters Heart and Man I can still see in and Nancy. Yeah, Never mind. I don't want to go there. But it was. Yeah. On a teenage boy. Yeah. Ellie, you got something? Chime in, woman. 

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so AI, I also am in the AI started an AI agency just about two months ago now. I think AI with the power. I think Ken, you mentioned suno. So AI is bringing the possibility of creativeness in anyone. That's where AI is at right now. But I still think that the beauty is in the in person. So I mentioned that I speak on Cultural intelligence. So music to me is when it's about people making a connection. The last concert I went to was about two months ago and my granddaughter, who is 10, I was asked to accompany her to a. Of all things, get ready for it. A K pop concert. Don't laugh. Sofi Stadium. I don't know what the capacity is out there. 

When I was buying the tickets for this thing, I was like, I couldn't believe the prices of these concerts. Here is this boy band based in South Korea, right? I was like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do with a bunch of teenies and tweens screaming right and all that. But I got in there and I was like blown away. Blown away. That thing. I don't know if any of you guys have ever been to a K pop concert. Okay? So they sell these lights that are like 70, 80 bucks. Who knew? I was like, what? I'm not gonna spend 80 bucks on a light. Well, those lights are actually power activated to synchronize with the music. So you get, you have like 20,000 lights all going off on the same beat of the music. 

And that was when I was like, wow, this has been going on for a while. I would have never known that. So that's where that whole connectedness still comes into play that I keep bringing up. You have people that are reacting to the music. It, it's that three to four hours of an actual ex. A positive, hopefully a positive experience for the crowd. And it's just, you know, you dress up and you can bring, and you bring it up yourself. Being this happy person and just finding something that you can sing to, you can dance to and just be with others who are like minded. And I think that's the beauty of the in person events. It's not something that AI is going to separate. If anything, AI will act as more of a proponent for human connection. 

Because people are going to be so tired of all this AI stuff. Everybody sounding the same. Suddenly everybody's got like a PhD in anything and everything because they Google. No, not. They googled it up, they aied it up. But yet the experience and the connectedness of people is what's going to be lacking. And that's where the power of the concerts or these in person events, it doesn't even have to be a concert. So that's what we're going to want and need is the human connection. Because we are still human. After all. When you strip away all that AI robot thing and that's my opinion. 

Man, you took me a bun down a bunch of sub rabbit holes. But you use the word culture. And when we talk about a concert, by definition it's a cultural event. Whether there's 50 people listening to a Pink Floyd band in a bar or fifty thousand or a hundred thousand in Wembley Stadium and everyone watching over the world. And, and I get that. And yet on this show, the person closest to me is what, four hours away? Barbara. Everyone else? Yeah, I think so. 

Washington is farther than that. 

Southern California. 

Yeah. Barbara's in Orange County. Did I get it right that time? 

Yes, yes, Orange County. And where are you, Ellie? 

Oh my goodness. 

Barbara. 

I am here in the border. LA and Orange county border. 

Okay, we can meet up. 

If I say she's in la, she yells at me and goes, no, it's Orange County. 

Yeah, there's a big difference. 

Oh, there is a big difference. Yeah. Don't, don't ever. Yeah, you can do the other way, but don't do the other way. Wherein if they're from Orange county, they want to be known as Orange County. 

Whereas longtime listeners know I'm like Californians. They're all, there you go. 

Right? We're all woo in California. 

Oh gosh, Greg, you got something to say? You've been quietly singing in the upper right corner. 

You. The question that I last heard was bad experience. And this is interesting because I wasn't there. But just knowing that this happened bothered me deeply at the time I was a teenager. But many of you will be familiar with the Altamont concert in California. The Rolling Stones, Hell's Angels. There was a murder that happened while they were playing the song Sympathetic for the Devil. And just knowing that happened just disturbed me. So that was. I didn't have any life experiences that were any worse than that. So that for me was the worst one thing I want to get in before because we're getting close here to the two hour mark. Nobody has brought it up yet, maybe nobody wants to talk about it. But the fact that all these miracle things we can do with AI music. 

Does it bother anybody that machine used copyrighted material that people owned to train itself to do that for you? And, and those artists are not getting paid for that. And the other thing out related to it is I was witness to a session that was one of my musicians groups. They brought in a guy that was a producer using and he literally right in front of us created a song and he chose the band Jamiroquai. Anybody familiar With Jamiroquai, he chose. He was going to do a Jamiroquai song and he was going to pretend that it was an original Jamiroquai song but a new song. And he literally, with voice prompts and tweaks right in front of us in about 15 minutes. He tweaked the lead vocalist sound, he tweaked the beat, he tweaked this, he tweaked that. 

And then he had a brand new Jamiroquai song that he created. And then he said, you know, we have a lot of bands that try to sound like some other band now, what if you wanted to be a jam knockoff but not a cover band, but somebody who kind of gloms onto their audience because they sound like them? And he says, so now what we did was that song. I guess there's some digital fingerprints on it when it's generated by AI. So they literally just went back to the studio and had their musicians recreate all the stems really quickly, but they put no time or effort into writing the song. The guy did that in 20 minutes electronically. 

They had a brand new song that sounded like Jamiroquite, but it had the band's signature because it was a real song created in a real studio with real instruments. Now that's angle that. That's what I just laid out. Should make us all think a little bit. 

All right, so before I. I'll run through everyone. Before I do that, I'm going to ask you, how's that any different than taking chat GPT and say, go through these dozen websites based on pick your topic and generate a blog post about that information. And that way it becomes out new as mine. I'm still pulling that copyrighted material out there. I'm repurposing it. I can get rid of the chat GPT hidden symbols by copying it over into Windows Notepad, copying it back in my blog post. And the. Both the SEO engines and the G Geo engines won't necessarily pick it up, especially if I tweak it by changing some of the words. So how is doing any that any different? 

And things like that are, I've heard for the last couple of years you can use AI to write books that way and blog posts and things like that. How is that any different from what you're talking about? That's it to you, Greg. 

This. This show is about music. And I'm musician. 

I get it. 

So I only have that angle in my brain. But I'm sure you could apply the same idea to all this other content that they exactly. 

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P.S. I've watched too many brilliant writers stay stuck in the 'thinking about it' phase. When you're ready to write the book that's calling to you, I'm here. But begin with implementing what resonated above.

G. Mick (The Doctor of Digital) Smith, PhD

American Patriot

Trusted Book Advisor to C-Suite | Manuscript Doctor 🚨 | Transforming Drafts into Authority Assets | Strategic Ghostwriting & Publishing Guidance | Literary CPR for Elite Experts | PhD | Voice Talent | Podcaster

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